Message-ID: <38266asstr$1031602202@assm.asstr-mirror.org> Return-Path: <news@google.com> X-Original-Path: not-for-mail From: cobillard@hotmail.com (Carol) X-Original-Message-ID: <2a28f2d7.0209091047.5d45eda@posting.google.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 2002 18:47:56 GMT X-ASSTR-Original-Date: 9 Sep 2002 11:47:55 -0700 Subject: {ASSM} On virginity Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 16:10:02 -0400 Path: assm.asstr-mirror.org!not-for-mail Approved: <assm@asstr-mirror.org> Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories.moderated,alt.sex.stories Followup-To: alt.sex.stories.d X-Archived-At: <URL:http://assm.asstr-mirror.org/Year2002/38266> X-Moderator-Contact: ASSTR ASSM moderation <story-ckought69@hotmail.com> X-Story-Submission: <ckought69@hotmail.com> X-Moderator-ID: newsman, dennyw "American girls are preoccupied with having the perfect skin, are involved with body projects (such as body piercing) and this modern age is also marked with the disappearance of virginity. Adolescent girls in the Victorian era, were sexually repressed, wore corsets, recognizing that virginity as the highest value in womanhood." -- Janice Young, reviewing "The Body Project: An Intimate History of American Girls", by Joan Jacobs Brumberg on Amazon.com Virginity is a relative quality. There are those who say it can be recaptured after its loss. <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/04/fashion/04VIRG.html> Purists and many physicians -- but emphatically not many philosophers or theologians would say it is measured by the presence of an unbroken hymen. But that could be lost in infancy, for any number of innocent reasons. Modern woman, myself included, would argue that the whole argument is irrelevant and that virginity is best disposed of without sentiment, so that a girl can get on with her life. Progressive religious movements are not inconsistent with this; it is the desire for certainty of ancient writ that drives some to look for concrete measures and then to impose those measures on an unwilling population by way of control. Shame becomes a tool of control. Of course, as we all know, such measures are hypocritical claptrap and those who wield the control feel free to engage in whatever fornication and pornography suits them, in the fond expectation they will not be found out. Occasionally they are, and they become contrite. Much of Islam (excepting only the moderated Islam of Africa and part of Southeast Asia and Europe and America) enslaves its women this way: at worst with female genital mutilation; sometimes with the public bloodletting of the Night of Defloration. <http://www.renebooks.com/TragedyOfIslamicWomenExcerpt.htm> Mom and I lived in two different homes run along lines that were a philosophical amalgam of the commands set out in those thousands of "Mo Letters" that Moses David (David Berg) had used to rule his Children of God ("The Family"), and the practices of the rule-free 60s hippie communes that were, in fact, precursors of Berg's church, and to which some disaffected members returned when they left the COG. (Others inevitably returned to mainstream America and the middle class that they had left.) After years of flirty fishing, Mom and her friends became committed to using sex for their pleasure and not for the profit of any organization. They thought -- like some of those early communes and in fact like Moses David at various times -- that marriage was obsolete and that public expression of affection, indeed sex performed in public within the commune, was the highest expression and demonstration of love, and a source of pleasure for oneself and of comparison and instruction for others, including children. As for Berg, he was irrelevant to us. Anyway, his philosophies were wildly inconsistent over time, especially his philosophies of sex (he fled Tenerife in March 1977 under a cloud after accusations of pedophilia were levied against him in Germany and elsewhere) and of diplomacy (he was virulently anti-Zionist after being kicked out of Israel, and that despite the fact that his sect had attracted significant numbers of Jews). With us, there were no inhibitions and there was no embarrassment regarding the physical need and emotional desire for sex. The only constraint was voluntariness and, with respect to minors, equality of age. Neither incest nor coercion was tolerated. That said, Mom would proudly and with a smile display to us the penis fresh from ejaculating in her mouth or in her vagina, delighted to prove how much it had been a source of pleasure for her and for her partner. By the time I was 12 I had tried out what I had seen adults and teens doing for years; I got rid of my virginity without hesitation and without drama, almost as an afterthought and in the accident of a tumble. The boy tripped and we both fell, he on top of me; he looked me in the eyes, I smiled, and before I knew it his penis was in my vagina and I was glad. More dramatic was the defloration of the Big Breasted Girl at our dance party. She had watched The 16-Year-Old Boy and I in our 69 gymnastics and knew it was time for her and for her partner. His gorgeous penis was insider her in a beautiful expression of mutual adolescent love. He spent many minutes preparing her vagina for the event, kissing and licking her vulva, inner labia, clitoris and vaginal opening. By the time she told him she was ready her vagina was dilated and very moist. Her hymen proved scarcely an obstacle. The regret and the emotional turmoil that some complain of in the wake of their first sex is almost always due to ignorance, surprise and pressure from the boy. Knowledge on the part of the girl equates to power and control. I have always thought that the girl should reject the convention of waiting for, indeed of allowing, the boy to take the lead. If sex is her currency, she should use it wisely, expediently, purposefully. Virginity is just a minor impediment in the way of her asserting herself; she needs to know how to dispose of it painlessly and expeditiously so that she can get on with her life, and her loves. Virginity was scarcely a word we knew at home, except in the mechanical sense. It carried no physical, spiritual or emotional value whatsoever. Not all girls were oriented, as I was and am, towards oral sex; "virginity" is particularly irrelevant in that sense. But of course that's my view with respect to my own virginity. But for other girls it may be different. It is human nature to want to look at the nude bodies of others and to be interested in their beauty and their beautiful activities. Like the magnificence of puberty, the magnificence of first sex experience captures and captivates our imagination. While my rite of passage was incidental and almost accidental, that of other girls, like that of the Big Breasted Girl, may be the result of deliberate decision and exquisite plan. Then, it is lovely to behold, and this is why in my memoir I described that pulsating penis ready to enter her as "gorgeous". She had been brought to desire by watching The 16-Year-Old Boy and me and had seen the beauty of his vibrant penis ejaculating into my mouth and the way I had taken his semen as a liquid of love. Her boy had made her ready with is mouth at her vagina, tenderly and solicitously. Because her first sex was so good, her sex life would have a positive foundation. Even in our environment some couples may, by reason of fear of failure or inadequacy have preferred privacy; but more usually if there were no witnesses to sex in our crowded house it would be purely by happenstance that nobody was there when arousal and affection coincided with a young couple's realization that they were ready. Girls and boys in our community talked openly of sex and had infinite opportunity to observe, even to touch and to feel. Even the youngest girl was unlikely to be surprised by the qualities of orgasm, ejaculation and flowing semen. She would have learned early of these as bodily functions, body products and common love. As a small child I had loved to see my Mom smiling and ecstatic, and I knew that this was something I too would be able to share with another. She had always told me that I would know when my time had come, and so I did. It happens that I did not witness a great number of deflorations, although it is possible that some occurred in my presence but were not advertised as such. In part this was because over the past few years a number of the children living in Mom's Friend's house moved away, and new families did not replace them. While Mom's Friend had many short-term visitors, mostly friends of hers from years before, they usually stayed only a few weeks at most. Virtually all shared our lifestyle; only a few, though also former Children of God members, had a more reticent approach to sex. Men would typically be happy to join in if there happened to be a willing and unattached girl. For girls the demand for romance and passion generally meant that an affair would be preceded by some considerable period of flirtation. On the other hand, in good weather a number of us would likely be sunning ourselves nude in our secluded backyard: without the usual nudist-colony "look but don't touch" protocol, fun could happen. The 16-Year-Old Boy and I liked to tease and arouse a prospective couple the way we had the Big Breasted Girl and her partner at the nude dancing party. Often this would have the same results. We really had an elegant protocol for mutual oral sex, and I can be quite provocative with my boy's penis in my mouth and his tongue in my vagina. I have a lovely figure and a lovely vagina, and while he is making me happy I will be performing a dance with my tongue and lips on the end of his penis. When he ejaculates, his semen will flow freely through my mouth. If I'm on top, just enough will stream down his penis and his scrotum and the sparkle in my eye, and my smile, will testify to my love and my pleasure. Few can resist the invitation to do likewise to their partner. I have seen otherwise hesitant girls and boys determine have their first oral sex after watching me and seeing how good it can be, and how it can improve the vaginal sex experience too. Particularly for the girl, the chance for orgasm is infinitely improved. Most memorable of the first-time sex experiences that I saw and had reason to appreciate -- because I so loved the girl -- was that of the Terrific Girl on the chaise longue at the swimming pool party. It was because I so loved her and wanted only the best for her that the Older Girl and I arranged things so that she would be at ease, and her boy primed to be solicitous and respectful as well as loving. I always pressed boys to prepare a girl with his mouth and his tongue, to bring her close to climax so that his penis in her vagina would be just the final act, the crescendo of a magnificent event. By the time the girl would be ready for him, he would be in a state of high excitement. But regardless of that boy's prior sexual experience, if I had got to speak to him he would know that this day belonged to his girl and that she deserved utmost consideration. A girl does not like brutal sex, whether relating to penis in vagina or mouth on vagina. There is no shortage of Internet guidance on this. <http://www.sexuality.org/l/sex/cunnfaq.html> The issue often arises as to an appropriate minimum age for fist sex. It is impossible to answer that question. In our environment, most girls and boys wanted to start their sex lives at puberty. In mainstream life it is wildly improbable that any significant number would be ready at that age, or that an appropriate partner would be at hand. I strongly support the policy of the houses I grew up in that there should be approximate equality of age of young persons having sex, to minimize chance of coercion or taking undue advantage; and because it is just more appropriate that kids of the same maturity should be so intimately connected. It happens that nobody living in our community was gay, but that likely is a matter of self-selection, isn't it. Mom's Friend certainly had gay friends, and they were never embarrassed in our presence; but they were just visitors. As in ordinary mixed society, just as in schools and on the school bus, there was an occasional unwanted approach by a boy to a girl. Yet, perhaps surprisingly since we were often together nude, crude solicitation and pressure by boys was rare. The very openness of our extended family, and the exposure to sex in action, brought with them responsibility, and even chivalry. I have written that I loved -- indeed I still love -- to attract and arouse boys and men; indeed I don't mind seeing a boy's penis respond to my presence. Until I was about 15, I enjoyed casual sex with pubescent boys; since then, and after my year and a half going with The 16-Year-Old Boy and having as much oral sex as we could want over that time, I am far more discriminating. I am happy for a man to see me nude, but he will not get his penis very close to me, and far less is he likely to get it inside of me, unless he has qualities of personality and character and intellect that justify the occasion. If I am going to savor his DNA I want those genes I am consuming to be of high quality. I am not writing here about boys' first sex: I have written of the most memorable occasions in which I was the cause of that: the two eleven-year olds, one while watching television with his dad, the other in the bathroom after I opened the door and found him in half-erection. In those days to be the first girl to have her mouth on his penis, to have his semen stream into me and to swallow it and to show a boy how happy it made me to initiate him into the world of girls and sex, was a glorious mission. Today, sex has taken its place as just one of many important features of being alive. Just as The 16-Year-Old Boy, when I met him not long ago aged 24 and now an air conditioning salesman, proved to be a bore, there is always a risk of incompatibility over time. That's why couples break up, and it's all part of the dance of life (or, as Anthony Powell called it, A Dance to the Music of Time). There were, however, a few special occasions. Of course I never discussed my family background and protocol of life all the years I was in school. Like any kid, I knew instinctively what was private and secret and what was to be our public face. People may have known or suspected that our quasi-hippie culture was alien to theirs, but as we weren't into drugs and all the kids were healthy and active, officialdom was kept at bay. One in college I was exposed to a wider group, and among my friends some knew. One of my friends, a happy girl, 17 and never kissed, came over to visit and so of course I had to tell her there was nudity about. She didn't seem to mind. From our conversations I had convinced her, without trying, and indeed while consciously trying not to influence her, that virginity was a pest and not a friend. Older Girl arranged a little party. And she had a good suggestion, which suited both Happy Girl and me: we'd have a nude party, but no sex, at least on the first date. Actually that was easy to contrive; we saw to it that there were little kids around, and so the party wound up a naturist party with the naturist "don't touch" protocol. I could see that our boys, without the naturist experience, were having trouble avoiding arousal; there penises were in constant movement and they would hide them behind a chair or a table at an embarrassing moment. But my smile should have told them that they should not be embarrassed on my account; indeed at the prospect of an erection attached to my favored boy I would throw back my shoulders, raising my breasts to attention, and perhaps stroke my vulva absent-mindedly. We had a nice evening, and must have excited our boys enough so that they asked us out together. We went to a film and we, in turn, liked them enough to bring them back to my place. Happy Girl had a week to decide for herself that this was the time for her to lose her virginity. At 17 she certainly was plenty old enough. And there we were, having had a nice dinner and a film, in our back garden on a warm autumn evening. Nude. Happy Girl looked so pretty sitting back in her chaise longue, a glass of wine in hand. Her boy must have known that a good time was likely. But my boy moved first, perhaps because, sitting next to him, I absent-mindedly stroked his back, and smiled positively as his hand touched my breast as if by chance, and then caressed them more purposefully. We kissed. The caressing continued and became foreplay. His hands were at my labia and my clitoris. But I was not going to allow him to penetrate with his penis until he had first prepared me fully. I wanted him to kiss and lick me, to excite me, to make me ready. Was he going to do that in the presence of the others? He would have to, and it is a matter of my body language telling him that fact. If the boy is not sensitive to my nonvocal speech he is not going to get far with me. My boy deciphered the signals. He kissed my vagina passionately; he ran his tongue around inside. I stroked his scalp and sighed. I was feeling good and would not let him stop until I was ready for him to proceed. I led him over to the grass, and he continued; but now I moved around and grasped his penis and caressed it, and then I began to kiss and suck it. We were side by side, his head to my vulva and my mouth on his penis. It was a bit uncomfortable and strained, but now I was ready for his penis to enter my vagina. Meanwhile, Happy Girl was watching, and as she watched, her boy kissed her and she stroked his penis, stiff and erect as it could be. Then she would cradle his testicles with her hand, caress his inner thighs, and return to his penis. He looked at her quizzically and her glance was positive. They arose and hand in hand walked over near where we were and lay on the grass. She attended to his penis, looked at it closely, gave it a quick kiss. As I had suggested to her, she guided his head to her crotch. But now my boy and I were ready for our dénouement. I smiled at him, and allowed him to mount me. I grasped his penis to guide it and he lowered it and entered me. I felt heavenly, part of a unit, complete. He moved at a varying pace: that would prolong the pleasure. From the corner of my eye I could see Happy Girl still had her boy's penis in her mouth. And then she cried out as he ejaculated and the spurting semen surprised her. Indeed, as I well know, unless a girl is attuned to subtle signals from the boy she may bring him to orgasm suddenly and before she's ready to receive his semen. Of course not every girl likes, as I do, to hold her boy's semen in her mouth, swirl it with her tongue and then swallow it. I enjoy that because I learned at so young an age how much pleasure it brings to us both and after all I was only 11 when I developed my love for the penis as object, as art, and as functional organ. To fondle my lover's penis and to make it respond to me is such a great pleasure, and to watch or to fell it ejaculate at my command is my love. My boy stopped momentarily as we looked over. Happy Girl seemed to have swallowed some of her boy's semen. The rest of the semen was pouring out of her mouth, down her boy's penis and onto the grass. She coughed; some semen must have gone down her windpipe. But it appears that her plans had gone slightly awry: she would have to wait a few minutes for her boy's penis to return to erection and to enter her vagina. My boy and I resumed. The rhythm of his penis in and out felt so good; the brief event between Happy Girl and her boy scarcely distracted us from our passion. I reached down and stroked my boy's scrotum, then put my hands on his buttocks to follow and encourage his movement. I looked him in the eyes, moved my lips to his and we kissed; and he ejaculated streams of semen into me. I did not have an orgasm but I felt super. I wanted to talk to Happy Girl and see to it, if I could, that her evening did not disappoint her. She had regained her composure and I smiled and told her she had done well. I whispered in her ear that she should have her boy kiss and suck her vagina as she had his penis. It was her prerogative, her right, after the pleasure she had afforded him. Happy Girl spread her legs and by putting her hand on her boy's neck signaled what she wanted. He was willing. Indeed, after a few minutes I saw that as he licked her pink parts his penis had once more become fully erect and vibrant. It glowed from its coating of semen. He continued with his face between her legs; her sighs increased in volume; she let out a shriek. I never make loud noise when I climax but some girls do, and Happy Girl did. Her boy sensed that he might now have another orgasm, and he mounted her. It would be her first time; did he know that? Perhaps not, but I had told her how to signal him to slow him down if she felt apprehensive. However, she was very, very wet and very excited. His penis penetrated her, stopped imperceptibly at the barrier and continued until it was fully inside. She cried out weakly, a little differently this time; she said later that she'd felt some pain, but that her happiness from before was so great that it didn't matter. Her boy continued until he'd had enough. It was not obvious whether he ejaculated once more or not, and it didn't matter. Happy Girl was satisfied, and this was her day. The issue of her "lost" virginity was irrelevant. Perhaps it means more at 17 than at 11 or 12, but in today's society it does not mean much either way. The point is to get started on life. Happy Girl was doing that, at a time that she felt was right for her. If it was right for her, all is surely right with the world as far as she is concerned. One should try to have a minimum of regret, and lost opportunity is ancient history, so forget it. I have written that there has been a partial convergence of the sexual protocol and morality of the environment in which I grew up and the outside world. As the opening quotation suggests, this is true of our view of virginity. To the extent that we are ahead of society in general, it is in the irrelevance we attach to it rather than the relativity we assign it. One may thus query at which point Happy Girl "ceased to be a virgin". Was it when she took her boy's penis in her mouth? When his tongue entered her vagina? When his penis penetrated? When her hymen gave way? In typically discriminatory fashion, the language does not allow for the relevance of her having or not having an orgasm. Another area in which societal mores are catching up to ours is in the abandonment of inhibitions. At the same time that the law is concerning itself with how children are exposed to sex -- something it could never have done in the true Victorian age because of family overcrowding -- the 60s are making themselves felt in the willingness of adolescents and the young to show off their affection, their passion, their bodies and their sexual relations and relationships. I am feeling the effects of this social transformation and the confluence ("approximation", in International English) of 60s commune and modern-day mainstream ethos as I start my new life in the Capital City. My life is still partitioned, but I am finding that, like me, everybody else here as a secret past and a secret life. It is the substance and not the existence of that past and that life that is secret. On the relativity of virginity, it interesting that the otherwise positive emphasis on oral sex is accompanied by a consensus that oral sex does not, in fact, deflower: only penis in vagina ends a girl's virginity. With that belief so widely shared and with oral sex an accepted activity among a large proportion of young adolescents, my world has indeed encompassed the mainstream. Even my lack of picture-book nuclear family is mirrored in the commonality, banality even, of single parenthood and the abandonment in law and in language of the concept of illegitimacy. Love, Carol [ERRATUM: I have been chastised by a reader for mis-attributing the opening quotation in my memoir of September 2, "On Puberty". It was Harry McAfee, the father of Kim, a Conrad Birdie fan, who remarked "I didn't know what puberty was till I was almost past it", and not Albert Peterson, Birdie's agent.] <http://bms.westport.k12.ct.us/mccormick/cast%20of%20characters.htm> A PERSONAL NOTE: For those following my personal journey, there is a scholarly article that discusses at some length the move to sexual extremism to the extent of abuse that caused Mom, Mom's Friend, and many others to leave the COG: Robert McFarland, "The Children of God, Journal of Psychohistory 21 (4) Spring 1994, <http://www.vote.org/ramsey/cults.htm> The dissidents refused to countenance abuse, bullying, intergenerational sex, incest or nonconsensual sex. Those principles and the unwaivable rights they represent, remain part of my credo. Young people are entitled to explore and to experiment and to experience sexual joy, but only on their own terms and at their own initiative. This series of memoirs is testimony to that credo. Since writing these memoirs, I have read Miriam Williams's autobiographical memoir of her 15 years in the COG, "Heaven's Harlots" (Eagle Brook 1999). Her observations of the COG are largely consistent with mine, although far more authoritative since I experienced only the aftermath of COG membership, and all of what I learned was from disaffected former members. Miriam's perspective of allowing children to observe adult sex, and to play their own sex games, is highly negative (p. 221) and the risk of her children being exposed to exhibitionists and pedophiles within the COG leadership caused her to quit the cult (pp. 232-235). Her remarks on oral sex are consistent with mine, as is her hostility to other, kinkier, kinds (p. 110). She writes extensively of wife sharing (beginning on p. 77) and nakedness (p. 145). I commend her book to you. Miriam's experiences were far different from mine, but they are reasonably consistent with what I have heard from Mom, Mom's Friend and other ex-COG members. Her book is very unsettling, and in the light of it (and in the view of increasing job and social pressures here in the Capital City) this is probably the last memoir I shall write. God bless you all. -- Pursuant to the Berne Convention, this work is copyright with all rights reserved by its author unless explicitly indicated. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | alt.sex.stories.moderated ----- send stories to: <ckought69@hotmail.com> | | FAQ: <http://assm.asstr-mirror.org/faq.html> Moderator: <story-ckought69@hotmail.com> | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Discuss this story and others in alt.sex.stories.d, look for subject {ASSD}| |Archive at <http://assm.asstr-mirror.org> Hosted by <http://www.asstr-mirror.org> | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+